GM to return two leased jets amid criticism

Wonder what the "early termination fee" was on those jets ? Must be millions......that'll show congress. LOL. Just another bad business decision by Generous Motors. Now they are going to shut down the Lordstown production plant. They build the small economical cars there. They are keeping the big truck plants open though.....that'll show congress that they can make good decisions. LOL .They are holding back payment to the dealers for rebates they give customers  till they get the "bailout"money from congress......that could add up to millions!!!! Another good move by GM. GM also sent a memo to dealers to "change the tv station in their customer waiting areas from CNN to Nickleodeon" so customers won't see all the "bad news" about the economy. (true story) LOL

Regarding Chrysler's comments, "it's a private matter".  If you are seeking public funds, it is no longer a private matter.  The arrogance is amazing.

Ya know... these CEO's are a bunch of real A_— Holes. They don't take time to get their heads out of there collective ARSES to think about how to present their case, before going to Congress.

Wanna know how to make an impression and bring Congressmen over to your way of thinking?

Go to the factory, and dig out your very  best alternate fuel/electric vehicle... in GM's case, the Volt. Stick that CEO's ass in that car and DRIVE it to Washington DC.

Park it outside the front door to Congress, then simply say... Here's my WRITTEN business plan you asked me for.... and lets all go outside for a first hand, up close and personal, Visual Aid. Let them all go outside and "kick the tires" and ooh and aaahhhh about the Volt. Ask who wants to ride shotgun, and take them for a little drive.  THEN, Mr. Wagoner, tell them that if they give YOU the bail out you need, you will retool and start mass producing this vehicle and others like it. This will help us stay afloat, AND help our environmental situation to some extent, and maybe even do a little about the ice caps melting. 

Oh, and please make the check out to me, and I'll run it over to the GM bank and deposit it on my way home.

THANKYOUVERYMUCH!!!!  The KING has left the building!!!

And you know what, Wagoner? This marketing idea is FREE... I'm not even going to charge you for it. No need to thank me.... Just the kind of caring, helpful guy I am.

Agreed, rod.  I find it just as arrogant that while asking for "help", Chrysler stated they would still give million dollar bonuses to their top execs.  Then they wonder why so many people are against helping them. 

This whole thing is funny too, because The Dow Chemical Corporation, which is a smart business, has put a halt on all traveling.  They can't even fly in people to interview.  Where as, it seems like only after GM had lost billions did it dawn on them that we need to start cutting costs.

Leprechaun--just a few problems with your idea-first the Volt only goes 40 miles before recharging-next-proposed price is 40k+.....I love the idea though.  It would have been much more effective than what they did.  they could have at least flown the car in one of their planes and then drove it to the capital-probably would have worked too.

These CEO's make over $20 million per year, which works out to more than $6000/hour. So $10,000 for a private jet flight doesn't look so bad if it saves a few hours of CEO time. Of course you have to wonder if anyone's time is worth $6000/hr, but that's another subject. 

The big joke is - morons blame the UAW for the big three auto problems. 

 The problem is greedy top executives who have run the business in the ground.  And greedy politicians who have gotten rich during the Bush administration.

Where can I attend CEO school? I want to fly around in private jets....

Greedy exec's have been getting rich for a much longer time than George Bush has been in office.  However, Execs making big money usually means that their companies are too - which is good for everyone.  The problem here is that these exec's do not want to cut back as the market retreats.  The CEO's want the union to take hits and want public money.  But they do not want to cut back themselves.

Our government works the same way - our elected officials keep making thier money and doing their travel thing.  They tell the auto CEO's that they should take less.  But at last look wasn't our government opertaing at huge defecits?  I have not seen any legislation to cut their pay or their travel.  I do not think that one of the air force one jets has been put up for sale.

Elitist in office and elitist in the board room.  They are the same really no matter if they are in the public or Private sector. 

Good post wg.  I wish they would investigate Nancy Pelosi & Barney Franks for there hand in the economic melt down.  Nancy voted herself a 800K raise.  They should have NO raises.  But it's an automatic raise.  They have to vote against it. 

Nancy's Husband also own boo-coo millions of AIG.....that's why she moved so quick!!!  Plus, when min. wage went from 5.25 to 7.25, she exempted Starkist....because her husband owns 17 million worth of the company.  Then she voted to give the Samoans who 85% worked for Starkist gov't funds.

I want this country & big gov't cleaned up.  I believe this is God's way of shouting their sin from the mountain top. 

I believe all corporate "perks" should be eliminated immediately, all bonuses stopped, all over-paid executives salaries should be slashed by50-75%, any many of these executives should be flat out fired. they have WAY WAY WAY to many chiefs telling the indians waht to do & getting way overpaid & over comped for doing not much of anything important!!

What a bunch of BS....The American people are having difficulty acquireing enough food for basic nutrition and these guys are defending ridiculous salaries and bonus's while just maybe having to talk about their books on a plane ride? I am so sick and tired of this fraud....Congress needs to stop these corporate criminals from holding our industries hostage. They need to go!!!!!

Just a thought......They are cancelling their corporate jets and reducing manufacturing....but what about the millions in their "racing program" ie Nascar.....the concept of Race it on Sunday, buy it Monday is absurb since there is nearly no resemblence between the race cars that are hand built using chromoly steel tubing and aluminum sheeting when compared to the showroom models.

Just a wild idea... cancel the racing program....ensure they advertise to the public that GM is focused on saving families of the US and Canada and will return to racing program when they once again are strong to do so. Doing this will definately save their image at least with me and likely many other people and dollars to come.

Next time they go to Washington, The Auto industry reps should drive up in one of the GM prototype "Fuel Cell" cars that they can not build untill the Government helps build an infrustructure to FUEL THEM.

  The only coast to coast infrastruture we have today is for OIL based Fuels.  GM has spent a Billion Dollars on developing  a new "FUEL CELL" platform that runs on Hydrogen and Oxygen to make Elecricity for an Electric car.  The same Hydrogen, that is injected into oil to make Gasoline, could be pumped directly into cars tanks and the only byproduct would be WATER.

  Our goverment has been using this method of creating electricity since the start of the Space program in the 1960s and we can get all the Hydrogen we want from Sea Water and solar Panels.

  BIG OIL Owns Washington untill January 20, 2009.  After that, we will see.    

     At NUMMI, in Fremont, California, GM and Toyota Build cars and trucks, with UAW Union Labor, and Make a profit.  New United Motors Manufaturing INC. Is a separate company from Toyota and General Motors and Makes cars for both.  Now if they can do this in the highest cost area for Labor in the country with UNION Labor, Then why can't they do this in the rest of America?  It's not the LABOR! it's the product being produced.  Quality built,  Economy cars and trucks.  They build what America is driving.  Oh yes, they also make cars to Export back to Japan.

   If you want a better car, the consumer has to demand it.  Then, the consumer has to buy it.   All those who drive foreign made cars, voted for the foreign car companies and againt Americans who build the cars "Made in America."  We like Cheap, Quality Goods.  Can we make them in America?  YES.  Will we buy them?  YES.  If we want our economy to get going again, American Workers need to buy "American".  We must Demand "American Made" at Wal-Mart, JC Penney, SEARS and other retailers.  Then we must buy them. 

When Toyota, Honda and others built Assemly Lines in the mid-west, they gave the employees higher wages and the same benefits than their counterparts in the UAW maned plants.  If they hadn't, they too would be UAW.  They also build what Americans are driving.  Just their managment is not as highly compensated as GM or Ford.        

What these CEO's and Executives alike in all industries need to understand is that the day of collecting lucrative compensation just because you have been perceived as "Brilliant" are coming quickly to an end. First we had the Banks and financial houses with hat in hand asking for a bail-out and now it's the auto industry and Cities like Philadelphia and Phoenix and the line is going to get longer and this economy implodes.

CONDITIONS MUST BE SET IN STONE, if loans or bailouts are to be approved. Just as Banks are not as trusting and relaxed about loaning money should congress be with TAX PAYER money.

Conditions are essential especially in this instance as the geniuses who have been running the the Auto Industry into the ground haven't missed a bonus even when the products they produced went against conventional wisdom.

If a 5 year loan is approved, they need to outline a clear cut plan on alternative fuel vehicles at a price the average consumer can afford and a commitment that the Executives will forego bonuses. Just like anyone else in business or even at home they need to put their money and reputations on the line.

When times are lean many of us who don't make six figure salaries begin to cut on many of the things we like just to survive. Folks at that level need to do the same, if they are truly convinced that their plans are sound they will show employees and the government that they appreciate HAVING A LUCRATIVE jobs sans bonuses is something they prefer to being the 'former CEO or Executive' of a company that went UNDER.

Shareholders of public companies are also going to have to demand that CEO's and Executives accept their positions just like any other employee, NO GOLDEN parachute! Poor performing employees are often escorted out of a building with a box and their personal belonging, why should executives be any different? If they make decisions which ultimately result in the demise of a company and THOUSANDS of people suffer and then lose of their livelihoods the former heads should be cut-off immediately and sued.

The argument has always been that in order to attract the best talent company's needed to pay accordingly. Well has anyone started tallying the REAL COST of the golden parachutes and compensation plans now that Solomon Brothers, Lehman Brothers, GM, Ford Chrysler, AIG etc. are such WONDERFUL financial shape?

IT IS SICKENING!!!

this what needs to be done...

1) fire of all the ceo's, cut there retirement and/or severance package in half and put that money back into the company  or....

2) keep the ceo's and cut there pay, retirement in half take there health benefits away and give it all back into the company and employess 

is Nancy Pelosi going to give up riding on her Government Funded Jet or are the taxpayers going to get stuck with this bill too

what arrogance thes lawmakers are showing did Barney Franke,Reid or Pelosi ask AIG to give up thier parties or retreats and you can bet your bottom dollar that AIG used corporate jets to get to California and Arizona for thier party to the sum of just under 2 million dollars so far.My next question how many Congressmen, Women and Senators take rides and trips on Private Corporate Aircraft.Please Raise Your Hands?

You have the right idea there sprstr-51..........

Re:  an above comment also, the unbridled arrogance [ of these "execs" ]  --  boggles the mind !!

Nobody earns that kind of money...............Nobody !!   Not even the founder of a GM, ford, or whatever. 

There is [ such a thing as ]  a reasonable salary to house, clothe and feed ones' family..........and yes, we all have the primal urge to live in opulent luxury...........with all the current techno-gadgets, but here is another approach.

I work for a local HVAC service company,  as a bench technician, with an enormous list of God given skills, and can repair most anything.

Note the forum nickname..........I do what is referred to as  " curb-crawling or dumpster diving "  on trash day, and pick up tons of cast-off techno- equipment,  and refurbish it for resale.

I have been doing so for nigh 45 years......and will continue to do so until I drop.

I Drive a recent vehicle, own my house outright,  decent furniture, have absolutely no debt, and have all the latest "gadgets" plus whatever it entertains me to build for myself or others.

I'll betcha dollars to doughnuts I'm happier and bettrer off than ANY one of them execs ! 

Capital or Capitol? I didn't know the execs were in the capital?

sprstr_51

I like your thinking... but you are being too kind. If someone like you or me were terminated for failure to meet the objectives for which we were hire... we'd get canned... no benefits. Our pension would be gone. I think most of the top execs have made enough money... they shouldn't get special treatment. If they get fired... there should be no compensation for a job poorly done.

Here's an idea: Tell them to piss off and give the $25 billion to US Automaker Telsa for their Electric and Hybrid sports and family car manufactoring (not development, their already to roll -they just need money), and to light and heavy Natural Gas truck manufactorer CWI and Sterling.

We need a solution, not our current crappy, oil dependent, mafiaso car manufactorers.

They should take one more ride, to Dick Cheney's Hunting Farewell Party. Wall Street Execs are also invited.

If I hear one more comment regarding the use of a corporate jet by the big 3 I will puke.  Do we really want the people who run a multinational corporation spending 4 hours in airports performing silly human tricks like removing their shoes for the vacant eyed folks wearing TSA shirts!  Get a grip.  Those jets are flying offices and lots of work was probably done in the 1.5 hour flight.  I want to know why the jackasses we have sitting in congress who asked the ridiculous question did not pose the same question to the cheats from AIG and Lehman Brothers, who have squandered away thousands of pension funds with their addiction to gambling in the last 10 years.  Did they ask the thieves from Halliburton how they got to their hearing?  Did they ask the presidents of big oil how they got to their hearing?  Could it be they just wanted to embarrass the presidents of a company who employs blue collar workers that belong to a union?  Please explain it to me.

How about this.  The UAW supported the Dems and Obama in this election.  This last request by the Big 3 was for money that was to mostly go toward the union to shore up the benefits for their members.  The Senators knew this.  I am not too sure that the Big 3 really even really cared about this money - they want the money for sure but they did not want it for the union unless that remove obligations for the Big 3.  So basically this was for the blue collar guy.  the Dems sent them home packing - nice isn't it.  By the way were was Obama - Mr. Blue Collar - he is still a sitting Senator at last check, where was he to help this along?  Face it AIG got the money because it went to the big wigs.  Lenders got money for the same reason.  When it came time to give money to directly help the blue collar guys our government laughed the request out of town.  Hope all you blue collar guys that voted for Democrats and Obama are happy with the "change" you voted into office.  Keep watching.

Yea, I personally believe they need to fire their PR person.  He/she is terrible.

First, they say "we wouldn't want to be late to the meeting."

Trust me if you were late because of a cancelled flight, we would all understand, because unlike you we have been there before.

Secondly, they make it sound like people want to kidnap them. I would understand that if you were flying abroad, but no one is going to put a gun in your back in the D.C. airport. 

Terrible response by their PR personell.  It just infuriates me even more as if we were all stupid enough to buy that.

You are so right.  How many of you even know what some or any of these CEO's Look like or even care?  The arrogance of these people is truly amazing.  You have to have Private Plans, you have to take vacations that cost 2 million dollars or more, ohh and ohh yeah, just forbid that you will have to stay in a regular hotel room with those people that you call customer or consumers.

I totally agree...anyone ever read The Ransom of Red Chief?  What a bunch of spoiled, greedy brats...and no one in their family is going to miss a meal, or worry about how to pay for a medical bill....$6,000 an hour.. There is no one on planet earth that is worth $6,000 an hour......

Ya I'll bet a lot of those hours were golfing. What about the maids? The mansions? The landscapers? The pool guys?? The parking attendants? I'm sure the list goes on and on for the things these guys get like they are all Paris Hilton waiting for her next reality show.....

Oh I don't know, I bet lots of people would slap them if they had to fly Southwest :)

Right on bfish-and it wasn't just Vegas either.  they had a big party in the DFW metroplex at some golf resort.  A great time was had by all.  Good Grief. Makesme want to vomit.

And of course - we all know that AIG had problems due to it union employees.

Don't for the hunting trip and the spa treatment!  No controls for AIG in place by the Senate & House.

Well, it is laughable that Reid could not even define "viable business plan" when asked!  What the heck do a bunch of lawyers know about a business plan?  They better get someone who knows up there quick.   Of course, while they are yelling cutting all the luxury items to the Big 3, someone should be yelling about all theirs.  Are these guys flying home for recess in economy class?  How about taking a train?  This is one of those do-as-I-say not as-I-do situations.  This "Viable" stuff is for show and that is all because they don't want to look bad when they hand over the money or they won't get re-elected to their cushy jobs.

This whole mess is to the point of pure unadulterated Bullsh t, no one can ever convince me that Congress was ignorant of what was happening a long time ago. But Hey, they all got their "campaign" donations and perks, so why worry, after all it is the Law, and our salaries and perks cannot be touched no matter how lousy a job we do. Indeed, honestly, How can anyone making $6,000.00 per hour and do such a lousy job ever relate to the folks who really pay their wages or buy their inferior product? We all had our chance a couple of weeks ago to "make real change" by throwing out all incumbents, but damn all we collectively did was replace a completely incompetent Leader with one of the least experienced in the History of our Country. No wonder we are all in deep crap. And many of our younger generation expects nothing short of miracles. Boys and girls you all have some real life lessons to learn, the hard way. Unfortunately, those lessons will also be dumped upon those of us who over many generations made this Country great, only to see a complete moral collapse of the values and true leadership that made our Country so great.

Yes..but each is not asking for billions in order to survive.

...and the justification of security is much more reasonable for members of congress than it is for business men.

well said Outthere.. it's ludicrous...

They travel on corporate jets, but only because it's hard to get out of some CEO's pocket before it takes off. Nah, not our duly elected representatives. lol

"Yes..but each is not asking for billions in order to survive"

True, but you and I are paying for these Congresmen to travel in the Goverments business jets. Wish I could get a lift sometimes.....since my tax dollars pay for them.

Then Air Force One should be grounded also. Only used for necessary trips abroad, NEVER for trips of pleasure (Crawford).

When I worked for the military, a General or equivalent-ranked civilain could arrange for a military aircraft for trips. Perhaps it's the same for Congress.

This would even be cost effective - pilots must get in flying hours in order to qualify for their job and to get the experience to do their job.

Bet it would shock the taxpayers how much it cost the Senate & Congressmen to make their trips home during this holiday alone.  There are over 600 of them which would make the Big3's little trip to DC look like a drip in the bucket. 

Air Force #1 has super security and safety mechanism.  Including all sorts of communication equipment.  It is only used for Presidental flights.

I know that if there's room on a military flight, military personnel can fly that way and they get special rates on commerical flight if they aren't booking full.

I think they were referring to security involving business deals not just the people involved.

Nancy Pelosi has her own Leer jet.

You are right on!  In addition, I believe a reporter said GM owns or has on lease 4 or 6 private jets, so guess they are keeping the others.

And we call the USA a democracy!  We have so many more kings/emperors from all these companies than any dynasty of other countries.  

Well i perceive that these people need a realitty check. LOL

To say no to the auto bailout go to:

Hey, they've only sold 2 now and 2 earlier this year.  They've still got three left; funny how nothing was said about that fact!!  Certainly, most people are not now going to actually feel sorry for them........boo hoo!!  Yeh, just like they've felt sorry for any of their actions and decisions (or should I say NON) in the past 20 years when they've been wallowing in money!!!  My question is when they saw this coming.....and they DID.....why didn't they at least put aside some of that $ to pay their pensioners healthcare if that's what they had contracted??  Now they want the rest of America to pay when most Americans don't even have a pension and many don't have healthcare!!!  WHY SHOULD WE PAY FOR SOMEONE ELSE'S RETIREMENT!!!!

 They did not own, they were leased , guess you can not read. typical Democrat

Upstate Farmer:  what is the point of turning something like this into a partisan issue.  As american citizens we are all going to be feeling the negtive consequences of the ineptness of the CEO's so why don't we stick to the topic at hand and leave dems v. repubs bullsh!t alone for awhile?

On one of the other jets, they said they returned two of the leased ones. He did not say anything about the ones they own. When they give back big bonus and pay the company back for personal travel and perks then ask us again  the answer will still be no,  but you can ask. I can't fly first class when I have to travel so why should he. His business in in trouble not mine. hmmmmmmmmmm maybe he should have driven a small car lmao. NO Bail out they are just crying wolf to cash in on the cash cow that congress put out there just like AIG no way no how.

If they are going to go under better they do it now that after they have the taxpayer money.

Upstate Farmer:

Does it really matter owned or leased. They both cost millions. It is debotchery at its finest. By the way I am a Republican...

it's interesting how all the free market capitalists are consistently advocating liberal economic policies and how the power of the "invisible hand of the market" should be left to play it's role without interference and yet...

When big companies begin to fail people begin to abandon the free market ship and they refuse to allow the "invisible hand of the market" to smash those companies that can't compete because they have such a huge impact on our American reality.  To me this is a prime example of why unlimited free market capitalism is simply unrealistic because of the existence of human greed.  Now these companies are going under, costing tens of thousands of Americans their jobs and we as a population have no recourse.  We can't/won't put the CEO's in jail for mismanagement so they will take their multi-million dollar severance packages (even after they drive their companies in to the ground) and live happily ever after.  Meanwhile all those Americans who depended on them to make wise economic and business decisions leave their former workplace bleeding from the a$$hole.

If this is not a good example of why government oversight and restrictions is necessary, i don't know what is.  At least with government oversight, we as citizens have a small amount of oversight over those making the decisions that affect our livelyhoods.  It should have never been allowed to come to this.

Are you kidding? He'll show up in a private limo. You can't change a liar or a crook.

The foreign car companies have beat the Big 3 at there own game.  I can't believe they had their heads so far up there rear-ends....that they didn't see this coming.

I can't really see them surviving.  I think they should go into chaper 7 and liquidate the rest of ther stock.

I just hate to see what happens to the employees & the area's around the manufacturing facilities.  They will all suffer.   And I'm sorry for that.

It will be the CEO's that rot in H*LL for this.  "To whom much is given; Much is required." 

It is making sense to me now.  Compared to the jets the CEO's use for transportation, the gas gussling SUVs are really inexpernsive and VERY fuel efficient.  Why is everybody complaining? LOL

and we are all searching for "shelter...from pigs on the wing"

great reference... the american people whould all listen to Animals and learn some valuable lessons.  By the way, in my humble opion; their best album.

YEH, RIGHT!!

yeah, they only returned them after being publicly scolded and humiliated.

it's like when people get busted for stuff, they're "really sorry".... sorry they got caught!

They returned 2 of the 7 they had leased. They returned 2 others in September. My math says they still have 3.

Their PR person did not mention that part?

If only they could get rid of the cars they manufacture as easily as their jets!

Dr Know-  They may not realize that they still have them since they seem to be a little lacking in math skills :)

Your right. They say it's a private issue... When wanting public funds, it becomes a public issue...

Susan, that is if Congress does its job and demands full transparency.  So far, Congress is not looking to be the brightest bulbs in the box either.  We hear about full transparency, and it's totally transparent now that these CEO's have done nothing more than live the lifestyle of the rich and famous, while their companies suffer. 

My question is, why didn't Congress ask for a Business Plan from these Clowns (oops, I mean CEOs) before the meeting, if Congress is contemplating loaning these auto makers money?  If you or I needed a loan from the bank, we'd have to present a Business Plan to the bank.

Ohhh, the arrogance ...... as I shake my head in total disbelief!

Sandra-agreed.  Perhaps a better question might be "Why did these Titans of Industry not see fit to have a plan for viability before showing up with their tin cups".  I know from experience that if I ask a bank for a business loan, I need to have a business plan.  I must be really difficult to be arrogant and stupid at the same time.

Donn, "It must be really difficult to be arrogant and stupid at the same time."

That's only if you live in the "real world."  These Clowns live in Fantasy Land.

Mindy,

Since the share holders pay CEO's salaries...how about we punish them by allowing their company to go under?  I've been reading through these post and there seems to be a lot of anger at the CEOs.  Can they be blamed for accepting these huge salaries for doing a terrible job?  Share holders are the ones who keep these imcompotent CEOs on the books and pay out these outlandish severence packages.  Shareholders, CEOs, and board members are only concerned with increasing their salaries.  If that means laying off employees and shutting down factories...so be it.  Just as long as they don't a make dime less than what they have been making.

I would rather see the money going into peoples pockets that are unemployed, than to see the money go into the Corporate Board Members pockets, who then quit and also walk away with your money as a bond holder with GMAC.

Get real they have repeatedly done the same old stuff (SOS) since the first Bailouts "Loans" of the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, 2000s always promising to "retool".  Oh, yeah they did retool at Mexico and Canada, closed US Factories, voted themselves more raises, had multimillion USD Corporate Parties with Politicians, handed workers pink slips, yeah "bail" them out of jail after about 50 years.

The only way that I would even consider approving a Loan or Bailout.

1.  That the Corporate Board Members did everything possible, that includes liquidating their personal National and International Properties (including those hidden under relatives names and lawyers), and used the money for the Corporation (none for themselves).  This has a precident in what a Private Business Owner must do to save his or her Company.
If not then send them to a prison like Guantanimo (BO said Guantanimo is closing), It is US Policy not to negotiate during hostage situations with terrorists (3 million US Jobs held hostage by Obese 3 for money), under the Patriot Acts.

2.  Complete to the penny (.01) public transparency of all money spent.  This includes all previous years, especially the Political Accounts used for Campaign Contributions.

3.  Re introduce the technology that was literally crushed by GM, the EV1, electric car with real improvements.

4.  Back the renewable technologies that have been proven to work (since 1950).  Sugarcane to Ethanol (note: proven that Corn to Ethanol not effective, per US Dept Energy and US Dept Agriculture, UN World Bank). 

5.  Build the renewable technologies vehicles in the US that do not require a complete change to the infrastructer (trillions USD).  Specifically, like the 3 million E100, and over 6 million Flex Fuel Vehicles (not including the Transportation Vehicles) currently built by GM, Ford, Toyota, VW, Peugot (not in the US).

6.  Stop putting multimillion USD advertisements on Television, we are not buying what you are saying.

7.  Defeat NAFTA and CAFTA and bring back ALL the Autoworker Jobs to the US.

8.  No more building in Mexico and Canada that includes parts.  No preassembly in Mexico and Canada and shipping to Michigan for the installation of one or two bolt or nuts.  No more nuts and bolts from China.  You claim that you are American Corporations, stop being Mexican, Canadian, Chinese.  Any "subcontracting" must be American and meet the same requirements.

9.  The Obese 3 (GM, Ford, Chrysler) must go to the Banks and Financial Institutions that were Bailed Out before they ask for anything.  If their credit sucks so bad that they cannot obtain loans from the Bailed Out Financial Institutions then that says that no one should bail them out or loan any money.

10.  No legal loop holes, no excuses, like "well that 30 million USD bonus was planned in 2007"or "well that is how we do business, sending our employees to Spas".

11.  Default is at Credit Card Interest Rates.  10 to 23 percent interest.  With reposessions (counted at manufacturing cost, not retail).  This includes all Corporate Board Member and Relatives (hidden assets) properties,nationally or internationally.

Before some one says something about this:

The reason that the other countries including Europe do NOT allow Mexican and Canadian cars from the Obese 3 into their countries is not because of what they stated it is because they cannot meet nor exceed the International TUV Safety Standards, nor get the required current mileage (kilometers) per gallon (liter).

I had lived there before and had to get special waivers for my American Car.

If you believe the Obese 3's excuses, you have to ask yourself, how come their European Models, not available in the US, are doing so well.  Ford AG, 65 Miles Per Gallon.  GM Opel.  Lets take it one step further, 3 Million E100 and over 6 Million Flex Fuel Vehicles, not including transports, built by GM, Ford, VW, Toyota, Peugot.

Next you are going to say something else like oh, the International TUV Safety Standards are not as good as the US DOT (Department Of Transportation) Safety Standards.  According to Survivalbility by Category that is not true.  Who do you think bought the Politicians to pressure the US DOT to make the US DOT change the Standards to prevent the importation of the "Foreign" Vehicles, which backfired because now GM, Ford cannot bring in their own high mileage European Models into the US.  Nor can they bring in the E100, nor Flex Fuel Vehicles that they produce in South America (since the 1950s).

Before you spout off about "American" Jobs, remember NAFTA and CAFTA.  Most of the US Jobs are assembly of Mexican and Canadian parts, or adding a couple of nuts and bolts made in China, and calling it Made in America.  As previously stated if they want to be "American" then all the parts must be from the US, with US Citizens in the US Assembling them.  Proof go to the dealership autoparts and read the labels, Made in ........., Assembled in ...............

I really believe that holding 3 Million US Citizens Hostage is a criminal act.  3 Million US Jobs will be lost if the Obese 3 fail.  If these 3 Million were so worried, I do not see them storming the Frankenstein Castle, Obese 3 Corporate Board Members homes, yet.  And I do not mean burning them in effegy either.

If you look at the neighborhood car lots, you will see hundreds of cars not being sold. We don't need any more cars right now. Shut those factories down for a few months, fire the CEOs and retructure the union contracts or get rid of them altogether. They tell us that we need to get rid of so many cars on our roads to fight global warming, well let the car manufactures help do their part...

You will not get rid of the unions.  They will be around for a long time...  If you want to re-tool the industry for other fuels, you will have to re-tool the infrastucture to FUEL these new cars.  Automobiles and Oil grew up together and each would feed of the others improvements.  A new team of new cars with new fuels needs to be fast-tracked to give consumers a choice.  We saw $4.00+Gasoline this last summer because there was no real choice.  Next summer it could be $5.00 gasoline and unless we provide alternates and their fueling stations, nothing will change.

Edward F. Dijeau You will not get rid of the unions.  They will be around for a long time...  If you want to re-tool the industry for other fuels, you will have to re-tool the infrastucture to FUEL these new cars.  Automobiles and Oil grew up together and each would feed of the others improvements.  A new team of new cars with new fuels needs to be fast-tracked to give consumers a choice.  We saw $4.00+Gasoline this last summer because there was no real choice.  Next summer it could be $5.00 gasoline and unless we provide alternates and their fueling stations, nothing will change.
1!#17.3 - Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:22 AM HST
Unfortunely, there are "Third World" Countries that have 3 Million E100 and over 6 Million Flex Fuel Vehicles made by GM, Ford, VW, Toyota, Peugot.  And they laugh at us all the time.  They have been using this technology successfully since 1950.  So yep, Ford, GM, Chrysler have been retooling and making renewable resource vehicles, but, NOT in the US.
Back on topic it still means that they have 3 more corporate jets.  I guess they are afraid that if they drove to Washington D.C. their car would breakdown.
Regarding cancellation of flights do what the rest of us must do, schedule ahead, days before you want to get to the destination as "travel time".
If they get kidnapped so what, they are replaceable.  They are just as bad as the criminals asking for ransom.  Oh, don't give us money and the US will lose 3 Million Jobs (livelyhoods).  Wonder why this sounds like the criminals.

Regarding the idea of transporting a GM Volt to Washington D.C. and then driving it to Congress.  Great idea, except:  It does not work.  During an independent test, with video, the GM Volt could not even climb up a 10 degree slope before stalling out and dying.  The GM VP PR stated in 2008 that maybe by 2020 they will have the battery problem solved (batteries from Asia).  Additionally, the GM Volt will add additional power requirements to the electric grid, that produces electricity from burning oil or dirty coal.  So what are you going to do NOW, not in the Jetson Age (future) to accomodate the additional electrical requirements.

What I mentioned above about the E100, the change to the infrastructure would be at the pumps, regular, E100, premium (was done before with gasahol during the 1970s in US).  The E100 is not from the ineffective (per US Dept Energy, US Dept Agriculture, UN World Bank) corn to ethanol, but from the effective Brazilian/Columbian sugarcane to ethanol with a byproduct of electrical power generation (clean burning biogasse/biomasse).  3 of these plants to produce E100 and electricity will be opening in 2009 at Louisiana.  Followed by generation III modular nuclear power plants.

Hey Steven-446650...Where do you get the $150,000 to $200,000 to Union Employees (each) from?  $27.00 per hour on the check and $18.00 in fringes and taxes times 2000 hours per year is abour $90,000 per year.  50 cars per hour times 2000 hours is 100,000 cars a year so the labor to assemble a car is less than $1.00, per worker, times 650 workers, on the line is less than $650.00 per car.  Add the executives  saleries, then they figure $2,400 per car for labor.   (The lines run at 58 cars per hour but with breaks and breakdowns on the lines, they average 50 cars.)  Those who don't assemble the cars, in management, make 2 to 50 times their union underlings in wages and benefits and make all the decisions as to what type of car to build and what kind of engine to put in it and THAT is consumer driven. 

amen edward! I'm tired of people saying it is the unions that made these corporations fail.  They try to inflate how much the union workers made, by adding in health care costs and pension costs.  It's just an excuse so they can do what they always wanted, cut out health care (thus adding more on to the uninsured rolls) and cut out pensions (leaving more people to the whims of SSI). 

Giving employee's decent benefits wasn't the root of the problem. The big 3 lobbying for the right to make sub par cars was. 

Yeah, the Ford AG Focus (or Escort) that gets 65 miles per gallon, that is not allowed in the US because of the Obese 3 Lobbists that had the Politicians change the US DOT Safety Standards to prevent the "foreign" car invasion a longtime ago.  Please do not say that the US DOT Standards are higher than the International TUV Safety Standards (proven safer, more survivability by Category than the US DOT Safety Standards).

To Charter a jet:  Light jets typically cost around $2,500 per flight hour, mid-size jets cost around $3,200 per flight hour and heavy jets cost on average $4,500 per hour and up.  My understanding from the article, is the companies "charter" their corporate jets.

Assuming it's a light jet that took one of these CEO's to Washington, that would be roughly 2 hours to Washington, and 2 hours back.  Total cost for 1 flight @ 4 hours; $10,000. 

A First Class, non-stop ticket from Detroit to Washington Dulles (without advanced notice) is $1,386.

Priceless!

Bull crap my husband work in corp. jet field and it takes something like about 20,000 in fuel to fly there not to mention the crew ins. and stocking the jet and up keep  of it you could fly a hell of a lot for that .  you have to have the eng. of a jet redone after so many flying hr and it cost big bucks so bull @!$%# it cheaper to fly a privet jet.

Get a grip, unless of course, you have ulterior motives hidden somewhere you wouldn't even be trying to stand up for these arrogant jerks!!

Can you explain the math?

You ask, "does the company president work any harer than the man on the line?"  Answer is simple.  YES.  Much harder.   All the man on the line worries about and does is put his part in place and at the end of his shift goes home.  No worries, no responsibility.  Company president does not have it that easy.  he has to not only worry about that guy putting on the part, but everything else as well.

You don't like the big salaries, try and find someone to do it for less

Wow clay....what do you think a fair salary is for a CEO who runs a company that loses billions each month? I know there would be a line miles long of people who could do that good of a job. Could you or I do any worse? The salary and perks that these guys receive is pure greed. NOBODY on the planet works hard enough to get paid that much. If the execs were worth that much their companies would need to be MAKING billions, not losing them.

Heck with people being laid off  I bet you could get people for a 1/4 the pay that would not run it into the ground

Clay--I do agree with what you say about CEO's having more responsibility and yes, pay should reflect it.  However, I also agree that if the workers are taking cuts, the CEO shouldn't be getting a hefty bonus and ringing endorsement from the stock holders for "saving money".   I think if a CEO doesn't perform--he or she should be escorted out the door, box in hand, like any other employee who doesn't perform.   Enough of these golden parachutes.

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My exact thoughts as well while watching them.  It is a known fact that many CEOs/Executives are Sociopaths...no conscience!