Ky. atheists want God out of homeland security

Yes, conversations on Newsvine are so much better when reactionary ideological rants are allowed to pass for reasoned discourse.

What would you ban them from exactly? Just because they don't believe in adult fairy tales doesn't make them any better or worse than those who do. I don't think "banning" people from what ever or where ever you would have them banned is a very "Christian" thing to do; is it?  

To the best of my knowledge, I am not an American citizen by choice; I am an American citizen by birth. I am glad I am an American citizen.  I am an atheist. I assure you, I am not an atheist by choice, I am an atheist by conviction, meaning I am convinced that no one has yet convinced me that their god does exist. I am glad I am an atheist.

I was subjected to prayer in the public schools I went to up until the third grade at about which time prayer was banned. For severals years thereafter I continued to be subjected to worship and religious instruction (four times a week), was 'saved', 'baptised' and became a member of the church. By the time I reached my teens I revolted and left the church. Why? Because I found Christianity to be so revolting that I could no longer endure associating with them.

Forty years later and I am still bitter about my 'religious upbringing', and, to add insult to injury, to have so-called Christians, telling me, an American citizen, a veteran of the Viet Nam Conflict Era, that it is 'one nation under god' and that if I don't like it, get out, (when the one thing I should be assure of here is Freedom Of Religion [in which, though not stated but should be is: freedom from other peoples religions]) when they themselves are about as godly as the Marquis de Sade, well, I think that stinks and I respond with, "You just try and make me!"

An American Atheist

If some of the Christians in these posts REALLY believed in the Bible --how could they post what they post? How could they live as they do? 

I was raised much like you American Atheist--after several very Un-Christian activities in the churches I attended, I decided that if there is a God the very last place He will show up on Sunday morning is in church!

that is the point I was trying to make also...

Get a grip people!

Please read the entire article.  This is not just a plaque, it requires training and education of all employees that God is keeping them safe.  That crosses the line separating church and state by a mile!

...plus the plaque is just stupid.

Thank you Patriot Tom and Death&Taxes for your very good points. I would even go a bit further and say that far from offering any protection, gods are far more often used to rally people to the most atrocious causes. The holy men who shot Mumbai to pieces the other day are a perfect example.

You can't disprove a negative.  Can you prove unicorns don't exist?  Can you prove uranium doesn't exist outside planet Earth?

Genius.

Levi:

What scientific, recordable, repeatable proof can you offer that God exists?  I'm going to go out on a limb here and say absolutely none.  

But now if its proof of evolution you are looking for there is lots of scientific, recordable, and repeatable proof that that exists.  But let me guess, in your eyes that doesn't matter, proof and fact have never had much of a part in religion.

And atheists crack me up! By definition, they take the position that there is no God. Agnostics just don't know.

Wrong. Atheists run the gamut of "there might be a god, I don't know" to "there is definitely no God, period." Agnostics believe it is impossible to know either way.

Why do the religious side feel the need to force others to believe or act as they do?

Answer that question and you will have the answer to your question

the constitution says that congress make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or the free exercise thereof..seems you don't like to consider the first amendment in total.

Requiring a polytheist to take a class explicitly recognizing the Christian God as a divine insurance policy in order to qualify for Homeland Security employment is preventing free exercise.

What is the question?

Game, set, and match!  Great post.  That sums it up right there.

I am sorry but the sign has nothing to do with anyone taking office or any kind of test being required.  All it has to do with is, that if something happens and the Kentucky government fails (which it probably will), then it wasn't their fault, that it must be an act of God.  It's their own way of covering their butts.

Stephanie:  If you had read the whole article you will see that it also says that there will be training and educational materials to go along with the plaque.  So yes it does hav eto with peple takinjg office and working in the building.

Usually those idiotic people are the Christians, attempting to mix church and state over and over again.

Our founding fathers would be rolling in their graves because of your like, especially Jefferson and Paine.

Our founding fathers would be rolling over in their graves because of the state of this country and it is not because of beleiving in GOD....it is because of the greed, cheating, treachery that goes by those who do not follow the ten commandments. 10 simple rules to live by. I am not judging anyone here I sin myself but just look where this country is at....don't blame GOD!

Sue you are indeed judging--you are applying your belief system as an excuse for the ills of the world--that is a judgmental call...

You indignant moron, our founding fathers abhorred your religion.

Perhaps you should go look up the Treaty of Tripoli (1796) in which they explicitly state that this country was not founded on the Christian doctrine.

Christians are f**king morons.

You'll find atheists and agnostics to care more about your nation than you apparently do.  "Sure, let's completely ignore separation of church and state, golly!"

Which "God" do you think they're giving heed to?  The Judeo-Christian one.  If a Sihk or Muslim came and wanted to do the same thing, don't you think you Christians would be the ones having a sh!tfit?

ranman87

the christians WOULD have a @!$%# fit. in fact, christians all over the nation raised alarms when a minnesota senator wanted to take his oath of office on a quran instead of a bible. they claimed it was the beginning of a muslim takeover of the us government. cant they just follow their own advise.....if they dont beleive in the quran they dont have to read it.

I believe...post # 35

That is why Atheist are the only people NOT Killing or Oppressing in the NAME OF GOD!..If anything they take RESPONSIBILITY for their OWN Actions and Decisions.

No one to take the BLAME or CREDIT but themselves...I like it No excuses.

People (ibelieve) seem so quick to say that it is everyone else besides the religious side that is sticking their nose into other peoples business but they make no reference to the fact that that is what the religious grups have been doing for ears, stuffing their beliefs down everyone elses throats, just look at abortion and gay rights.

Back again to not making sense and reinforcing our views

This Winger-person is off the wall.  Do something, please.

Mr. Tenny:  Winger has been deleted from almost every "discussion" on newsvine. I think the person just wants "attention", probably goes back to poor pottie training in his childhood.

Insisting on banning religion is the same as insisting on having religion in our government. Careful what you ask for.

Feel free to point out anyone here who insisted in banning religion. We'll wait.

Still waiting, Harv...

I missed something in Harv's post I do believe.  What does it mean:"insisting on banning religion is the same as insisting on having religion in our government"????? Ur, my reading comprehension must be slipping - I hate it when that happens. 

Hello Jack!!!!  Nice to see you!! 

If you had ever been in a foxhole defending your country, you'd know that in that position you are willing to do anything to try to keep safe.  One tends to hedge their bets in that situation--there are a lot of lucky pennies and lucky rabbit's feet in foxholes, does that mean that rabbits are God's emissaries?

Rabbits might be God's emissaries if they kept you safe.  Pennies too.  Works for me.

A good portion of the Founding Fathers were Deists, not Christians.

Further, it's telling that God is never mentioned in the Constitution, only a generic "Creator," in a time when referneces to God were the norm, and a reference to Creator would've raised eyebrows.

I don't know why it bothers some people so much to see some inspiring words written down in public.

So you'd be fine with "Praise be to Allah, the One God, and let him bestow his protection upon us"? After all, it's inspiring to some religious people, right? I doubt it.

Just take a deep look at all the rest of the countries around the world, if people are not inspired somehow the country'sleadership fails, society is in turmoil.

Seriously, the theocracies of Saudi Arabia and Iran should be our role models, not the secular nations of northern/central  Europe.

Religion does give people a sense of hope and pulls them together. Where else they going to get it?

The Crusades were hardly about community hope and togetherness, unless it was "let's all kill the heathens together!"

Trashman, politicians love to appeal to religious sentiments, and that's been going on all throughout recorded history. There is no way to know what is really on the minds of politicians who do so, but I suspect that a lot of our most "pious" politicians don't really believe a bit of it. Many of them remind me of the ever-so-holy right-wing millionaire preachers who are always getting caught with hookers and gay escorts, etc. As long as pandering works, they will continue pandering.

What does the sign have to do with taking the life of an unborn child? I think one of us missed something.

ya, you missed something alright. its called logic.

its about mandating religion 'morality' onto those who dont want to be mandated.  a sign praising god doesnt belong in a government building. it esp doesnt belong in state or federal law.

apparently you dont see the connection, which is forcing a particular religion upon the citizens of the nation (or in this case the people of kentucky). 

Murder is murder....the question here is what constitutes a human life.

Sue is obviously trying to have it both ways...mike is correct on this one

Sue-

The question is: Why don't you stay on topic?

well i guess when christians lose the ability of using logic, they resort to name calling to prove their point. so civilized behavior.

You have mentioned logic many more times in your posts than you have displayed. Try something else to make yourself sound intelligent, that ain't workin for ya.

Harv, thinking of what you were using on yourself last night?

I was thinking about Mrs. Baggins, Bilbo.

Harv - Mrs. Baggins said she thought she felt a small prick last night!!

...then get her a larger Dildo, Bilbo...

Sorry, Mrs. Harv has it....she said she was tired of a small prick as well....

You do seem to be a bigger prick than most.

Hey he started it...I'll finish it.....and lighten up and have a sense of humour....

Thanks to tyler and Mr. Tenny - it would take more than a sense of humor to appreciate these two.  May I humbly suggest they get each other's email address and correspond in that manner? 

What church does  the sign affiliate our state with?

it doesnt affiliate with any one particular church but rather christianity as a whole. separation of church and state really mean separation of religion and government.

The sign mentions Christ? I didn't read that. I read it mentioned God or Lord, not Jesus.

Hey Mike, morality is not religion. Wrong again.

my post from above says nothing of morality. 

and the christian faith refers to its diety as 'god' or 'lord'.   islamics refer to theirs as 'allah'.  buddists refer to their diety as 'buddah'.

apparently for a christian, you know very little of your own faith. surpised that you wouldnt know christians refer to their diety as 'god'.

looks like im right again.

Read your post again, below:

ya, you missed something alright. its called logic.

its about mandating religion 'morality' onto those who dont want to be mandated.  a sign praising god doesnt belong in a government building. it esp doesnt belong in state or federal law.

apparently you dont see the connection, which is forcing a particular religion upon the citizens of the nation (or in this case the people of kentucky). 

Wrong again

Catholics and Baptists are Christian religions. You know not of what you speak DA.

ask someone on the christian right if catholics are christians and they will probably laugh at you.

hell christians cant even agree amoung themselves what christianity is and yet they want to attempt to force it down the throats of all americans.

I do believe you're correct about the Christian right, but not the sign.

i am correct about the sign also. surely if the sign instead mentioned praising satan, allah, or buddah  alot of people in this nation would be upset about it.  and they would protest to have it removed, which im sure it would have. now what is so differnt about this sign other than it praises the christian god?

its called a double standard and it shouldnt be allowed.

So it is the Christian  God that it refers to? How did you figure that out? It doesn't mention Christ.

very easy.   differnt religions call their diety different names.  i have never heard an islamic refer to his diety as 'lord' or 'god', but rather allah.

using simple logic, which alot of ppl seem to not possess, one can clearly see that the sgn was refering to the christian deity, who is commonly known as 'god' or 'lord'

it seems that you know very little of the religion you claim to follow. perhaps you should take up a theology class somewhere.

So the god of fire is a Christian according to your LOGIC ?

The "god of fire" actually does have a name, however it escapes me now harvSr, but the god that christians refer to is just "God".  Thats the difference.  His logic is sound

Mike's logic and intelligence are both flawed, and he left.

What religion does the sign invoke?

harvSr:  See above

The state is not indorsing or adopting  any particular religion. What is the problem.

harvSr: I do believe you are just wanting attention, and replies - no matter how silly it becomes. You are not doing the christian cause any favors.

so i guess all the freedoms provided by the first amendment doesnt apply if you are an athiest or non christian? 

guess what, based on your deluded logic, america should be a theocracy like iran or iraq, where the minorities have little to no rights.

maybe YOU should leave this nation june. we certainly dont need YOUR kind in this nation.

you know whats really pathetic - retards like you who believe in "god" and "jesus" Give your head a shake and wake up! You can't honestly belive that crap do you? How stupid are you? Dniosaur bones are here to test your faith ..right? God created the earth and all science is wrong...right? F'n moron religious people - I honestly can't belive that there are people in this day and age who still believe in any of that bs. Honestly? are there still people this dumb in America?

Not only are there pathetic ignorant so called "Jesus" lovers but they go around thinking and carrying on as if they were holier and better than anyone else. The stupid C student president went on another holy war in Iraq just following his version of "God's" commands.

These fools are dangerous and need to be sent out to the middle east to duke it out with their counterparts. They need to leave America, their version of freedom is slavery, dogma, religion, all those are versions of slavery.

Reading your comment and the atrocious spelling contained within actually answers your own question. There really are people this dumb in America.

Spell check is just above your text window, it can help you out with big words like "believe" and "Dinosaur" you might want to consider using it.

Remember "it is better to remain silent and have people believe you are an idiot, then to open your mouth and prove it" 

If you don't believe in God, then how can you be so afraid? If I were you, I would be more concerned about being wrong. You only get the one shot, and think of the heat, my God the heat

I think that all athiest should be deported out of this country

Just like all Jews should've been removed from Germany. Oh, wait.

It is a disgrace that we allow them to live in America and have a say in america

Seriously, f--- the First Amendment and that stupid "all men are created equal" canard.

Huang, what kind of American name is that? 

If every one would quit responding to harvSr - maybe he would find something else to get attention.  One has trouble talking to themself  - please let him try that for a while. I am now applying the ignore button .......

John/numbers:  You leave Jack Haung alone ya hear???  Maybe you would be able to add your last name if you read enough posts by Mr. Haung - you would be better educated for sure.  Why would you question a man's name???  I don't care where he is from - he is a bright human being, and brings logic to the table of any discussion he enters.  Do you??

god caused 9/11, Katrina, and all miscarried babies. He's a good god.

God didn't write the bible... man did.  So how could it be the LITERAL word of god?  It's been rewritten so many times.  It is good fiction though.

Prove he does not exist.

actually, it is up to the one making the accusation to provide the proof. in this case, christians made the case that god is protecting kentucky through homeland security.

now prove this is true. provide scientific data that supports the sign or the christian religion.

Prove it does exist.   Starting with the gender.  Why is he always attached to "God"?

Could it be because a MAN came up with the Concept? Could it be because the Book said

ADAM was created first in the "IMAGINE" of "God"

However the Beast, Fish and Fowl were created according to the Book before Adam...so which came first the Males or Females.

Since you all are all knowing and know that GOD does not exist. Please explain to me in detail and give me proof of how we came to exist. I would really like to know since your all seem to know every thing.

Its "IMAGE of GOD". No wonder you can't get this right. You can't even spell. Guess that shows your reading ability also.

mobadthangood

I know I said the Imagine.....Meaning the Imagination I was being lazy. Surly Man can not be created in the Image of a Metaphysical Entity.

Then you place a Human attribute to a so-called Deity...like Roman and Greek Mythology. Who were always giving their "Gods" Human Qualities.

Why do you need details that God does not exist? I do not believe that the existence of "God" is the question.

The question is, why is one interpretation of God better than another?

That is why it is better to leave god out of public policy, etc. Practice religion as you see fit in your own private mind. Leave the rest do what they want to do. When I listen to music too loudly, neighbors complain. When you practice religion too loudly, people DIE!!!!!!

Any book on evolution can tell you we exist, all the fossils and evidence that has been found backs it up.  Proof that god exists is the thing that is lacking.

The existence of god is not in question, the question is whether the state is endorsing or adopting a state religion, and it isn't

hav....correct, the state is not endorsing a specific religion. Others don;t get it, they have taken the context and allowed expansion of a phrase before thinging about it.

Only one religion refers to "God" in that exact term, all others have other names that they use, i.e) allah, buddha, etc.  So anyone can see that this refernce on a plaque references to the christian "god".  So these people have certainly thought about what is being said and they are coming to the logical conclusion.  if you can show me another religion that referes to their creator as specifically "God" then you may have an argument, but since there isn' one, everyone else seems to be right while you my friedn are the one that has to stop and think.  And where people are getting the idea that the refernce to God isn't a reference to the christian religion I have no idea, becasue since so many of you epople have pointed out the country was built on the christian religion so why would they make refernce to another god

there are people who believe in making sacrifices to please their 'god'.  but based on your logic, since they believe, we must 'let it alone'

lol christians have such flawed logic. probably comes from believing in a fairy tale book.

But it does affect people either way. Government agencies are not religious agencies, as church and state are separate. Or would you prefer that we go back to pre-indepence days and make the Church of England the official church of our country? Or further back still to pre-Reformation times when the only Christian body in Europe was the Roman Catholic Church? What individual government agents believe is their business. I'm glad that God gives them strength in their lives. But to put this on a plaque - or to insist that agents acknowledge God in the course of performing their duties - flies in the face of everything that America stands for. If we "limit" God in government, we safeguard the freedoms that allow us to worship Him in the private sphere. If we inject God officially into government, then government - which represents us all - becomes a promoter of religion, and politically active religious groups will waste no time in defining what exactly that faith demands of us as citizens.

My, my ... what high and moral attitudes you take when it benefits only your belief system.  How nice to play God over other people's values.

How so easy to lump everyone into one group ... I mean anyone who believes in a creator must be some kind of religious nut in your way of thinking.  I bet you lump most everyone under a certain title or lifestyle by say the color of their skin or the shape of their eyes or maybe even if the are vegetarian or (heaven forbid!) meat eaters.

How nice to play God over other people's values.

Coming from the person defending a gov't institution mandating religious education for its employees, that's really quite funny.

Arizona... there are those that beleive in Gay Marriage too.  So why don't you and all the other bible thunpers out there just leave that one alone as well?  It doesn't affect you either... what a hypocrite.

Hoov ... gay marriage is not what this string is about.  But, I will answer anyway.  I believe that same-sex unions do happen.  I have 2 cousins who are gay.  I love them dearly and should they find a lifepartner that makes them truly happy than I wouldn't step in their way. I would also attend the ceremony, buy them a present, and wish them all the happiness in the world.  However, I believe that "marriage" is defined as (1) man and (1) woman.  Their ceremony is just that, a committment towards each other.  A declaration of their love. 

The laws need to be changed to recognize same-sex unions so they too can be recognized as a commiteed relations and benefit just as a man/woman union does.  Not by changing the definition of the word marriage.  If life were fair then there should be no difference in our health benefits etc on whether you are married or not.

You are a very angry person. Hope you find something to give you peace!

Fearful, not angry - due to religious fanatics of all stripes who "know" what God wants and who "know" what will make all people happy. Those who disagree with them are labeled as "wicked" and "angry". They "need to find something", or will go to Hell otherwise. These things, plus many "damnation" Biblical quotes being thrown around in this very forum suggest "anger" much more so than did my comments regarding religion being interjected into government. If I have any anger, it isn't directed at religion or Christ or Christians - it's directed at the self righteous arrogance of some who would to turn America into Jesus Land. Can't stomach common sense re: religion in government? Tell the person you disagree with that he's "angry" and needs to find "peace". That way you're in the superior position. Right.

It's in the Constitution, you have a right  never to be offended, Morebad. I can tell, you're sensitive, aren't you?

My statement seems to be involving everything else in this country that someone claims to be offended by so they sue someone or cause pain. There is NOTHING in the Constitution that says you have right to never be offended. This is just more play on words. Just like a hypocrite Christian that only picks out the parts of the Bible they want and not use the whole Bible.

People can find anything wrong with anything. But does that have to be forced on everyone?

Just like a hypocrite Christian that only picks out the parts of the Bible they want and not use the whole Bible.

Hehe, I find the self-proclaimed Biblical literalists far more moronic, since they're the ones completely blind to their own cherry-picking.

so are you trying to imply that if im not 'serving my country' or 'in this area' it doesnt apply to me?

are you trying to imply that because one isnt in the military or homeland security or live in kentucky it doesnt effect me?

sorry, but homeland security is a federal agency so it effects all americans. and kentucky is part of the UNITED STATES of america, of which i am a citizen, so yes it does effect me.

very weak logic on your part. actually, no logic at all.

The same can be said for the majority of the religios people as well, following cause someone else said so.

No, it does not say freedom from religion. To have freedom OF religion though, you need to have freedom FROM religion. You cannot possible to tell a person they can believe what they want, and then tell them they have to believe in a Higher Power.